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New Scottish Referendum


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#21 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 05:23 AM

Look up the Internet and you will find alternatives. I posted an article the other day from The Guardian.

 

Read the article and you'll find out alternatives to democracy.

 

Off the cuff Jay, without having to read articles, what is the alternative to democracy in your opinion ?


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#22 Hairy Scot

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 05:46 AM

Off the cuff Jay, without having to read articles, what is the alternative to democracy in your opinion ?


Elitism perhaps?
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#23 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:24 AM

Elitism perhaps?

 

what sprung to mind for me was....dictatorship, autocracy. Apparently the SNP believe in democracy.....Nicola Surgeon has gone to great lengths to state that Scotland must remain in Europe and if not then a 2nd Indy referendum would be the democratic process....From a BBC interview she said......"If we are taken out of the EU against our will I will want to give the people of Scotland the opportunity to protect our EU membership by looking again at the issue of independence."

Pressed on whether this meant she planned to hold a referendum as soon as polls show she is likely to win it, Ms Sturgeon said it would be "democratic" to let the people of Scotland decide, adding that it would be an "affront to democracy" should this be blocked."


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#24 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:29 AM

Break it down.......

Better yet, do you believe in the Democratic process, or go along with the alternative?..... if, you go with the alternative, I will read it, but if you are happy enough with Democracy....... then, no point......

So which is it?

I think the democratic system is flawed. The UK system now sees Labour and Conservative as fairly central.

Labour are fucked in Scotland because they moved from being a party for working class to being unsure what they stand for.

Corbyn comes along who has principles but Labour party are divided.

Liberal party are fucked cause Clegg went in to bed with Conservative party. They are now irrelevant in UK politics.

New parties need formed.

Can you explain NI?

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#25 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:29 AM

Read the article and you'll find out alternatives to democracy.

 

As a supporter of Scottish Independence.....do you disagree with what Sturgeon says here ?......"If we are taken out of the EU against our will I will want to give the people of Scotland the opportunity to protect our EU membership by looking again at the issue of independence."

Pressed on whether this meant she planned to hold a referendum as soon as polls show she is likely to win it, Ms Sturgeon said it would be "democratic" to let the people of Scotland decide, adding that it would be an "affront to democracy" should this be blocked."


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#26 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:32 AM

Break it down.......

Better yet, do you believe in the Democratic process, or go along with the alternative?..... if, you go with the alternative, I will read it, but if you are happy enough with Democracy....... then, no point......

So which is it?

I think the democratic system is flawed. The UK system now sees Labour and Conservative as fairly central.

Labour are fucked in Scotland because they moved from being a party for working class to being unsure what they stand for.

Corbyn comes along who has principles but Labour party are divided.

Liberal party are fucked cause Clegg went in to bed with Conservative party. They are now irrelevant in UK politics.

New parties need formed.

Can you explain NI?

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#27 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:37 AM

As a supporter of Scottish Independence.....do you disagree with what Sturgeon says here ?......"If we are taken out of the EU against our will I will want to give the people of Scotland the opportunity to protect our EU membership by looking again at the issue of independence."
Pressed on whether this meant she planned to hold a referendum as soon as polls show she is likely to win it, Ms Sturgeon said it would be "democratic" to let the people of Scotland decide, adding that it would be an "affront to democracy" should this be blocked."

The country is divided and times are changing. There is a generation gap. That was shown with referendum.

People of a certain age feel secure within union.

Those under 40 are thinking of their children and a future where a potential Scottish government has control.

If independence happens then I believe new political parties would form.

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#28 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:43 AM

The country is divided and times are changing. There is a generation gap. That was shown with referendum.

People of a certain age feel secure within union.

Those under 40 are thinking of their children and a future where a potential Scottish government has control.

If independence happens then I believe new political parties would form.

 

No No Jay.....I asked if you agreed with what Nicola Sturgeon said........T'was yourself that said earlier about democracy being flawed or an alternative being required no? You want Scottish independence....so does Nicola Sturgeon and she strongly uses the word democracy.....do you agree with her on the democratic process ?


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#29 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:44 AM

No No Jay.....I asked if you agreed with what Nicola Sturgeon said........T'was yourself that said earlier about democracy being flawed or an alternative being required no? You want Scottish independence....so does Nicola Sturgeon and she strongly uses the word democracy.....do you agree with her on the democratic process ?

As I've said to Bastion, read the article I've posted. It's from educated folk as opposed to the tabloid press that so much of UK relies on.

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#30 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:04 AM

As I've said to Bastion, read the article I've posted. It's from educated folk as opposed to the tabloid press that so much of UK relies on.

 

These are words straight from Nicola Sturgeon's mouth Jay.....I think the fact you are unwilling to simply say you agree or disagree with what she says here is because you know you are wrong as it is the leader of the SNP that uses the word 'Democracy' in her aim for an Independent Scotland & that is what you also wish.

 

You believe that the tabloid press is devoid of intelligent & educated people ?.....Didn't take you as suffering from elitism......


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#31 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:07 AM

These are words straight from Nicola Sturgeon's mouth Jay.....I think the fact you are unwilling to simply say you agree or disagree with what she says here is because you know you are wrong as it is the leader of the SNP that uses the word 'Democracy' in her aim for an Independent Scotland & that is what you also wish.

You believe that the tabloid press is devoid of intelligent & educated people ?.....Didn't take you as suffering from elitism......

The tabloid press use sensational headlines to deflect from the major issues.

Ffs, the Sun will focus on a celebrity having botox instead of actual issues in society.

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#32 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:12 AM

The tabloid press use sensational headlines to deflect from the major issues.

Ffs, the Sun will focus on a celebrity having botox instead of actual issues in society.

 

Correct.....however that has nothing to do with the intelligence or education of the journalists.....

 

Still....you still bodyswerve my comments about democracy....I believe your refusal to answer is because you know you are wrong....


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#33 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:18 AM

Correct.....however that has nothing to do with the intelligence or education of the journalists.....

Still....you still bodyswerve my comments about democracy....I believe your refusal to answer is because you know you are wrong....

I believe your refusal to read article is laziness.

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#34 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:23 AM

I believe your refusal to read article is laziness.

 

Tit for Tat......okay....Simple question but you won't answer apart from giving a cowardly response...par for the course.

 

By answering like that you realise that you confirm that you are wrong but cannot bring yourself to admit it....quite pathetic.


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#35 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:28 AM

Tit for Tat......okay....Simple question but you won't answer apart from giving a cowardly response...par for the course.

By answering like that you realise that you confirm that you are wrong but cannot bring yourself to admit it....quite pathetic.

It's not cowardly at all. You regularly talk about having respect for other views. I've posted articles about democracy but you refuse to read them.

I can't force you too. People will choose what they want to read.

I've posted in members section that I've asked Craig to suspend my account while I consider whether I leave for good.

It's a shame as there used to be decent football chat on here.

I'll probably just stick to podcast. If folk on here want to keep in touch then they know how to.

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#36 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:52 AM

It's not cowardly at all. You regularly talk about having respect for other views. I've posted articles about democracy but you refuse to read them.

I can't force you too. People will choose what they want to read.

I've posted in members section that I've asked Craig to suspend my account while I consider whether I leave for good.

It's a shame as there used to be decent football chat on here.

I'll probably just stick to podcast. If folk on here want to keep in touch then they know how to.

 

Oh dear.....Once again a debate you disagree with the responses or don't like them so you're shooting the craw.....? Unbelievable .......or is it?

 

I don't need to read about democracy....I know what it is....so does wee Nicola as she mentions it often enough. Only person I see saying he doesn't agree with democracy is you Jay but remember that is the only way you'll ever achieve Independence.


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#37 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 08:13 AM

Oh dear.....Once again a debate you disagree with the responses or don't like them so you're shooting the craw.....? Unbelievable .......or is it?

I don't need to read about democracy....I know what it is....so does wee Nicola as she mentions it often enough. Only person I see saying he doesn't agree with democracy is you Jay but remember that is the only way you'll ever achieve Independence.

Too often people on here ask questions and don't like answer. I give articulated responses and evidence to back up debate.

You refuse to read articles as you'd prefer to stick to your own viewpoint.

This is off topic but do you not think it odd that owner of forum rarely posts?

Do you not think it odd that so many have left?

You enjoy going off topic on many threads so I'm interested to hear what you think as opposed to calling those who have a different view to be 'victims'.

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#38 black dog

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 08:21 AM

Too often people on here ask questions and don't like answer. I give articulated responses and evidence to back up debate.

You refuse to read articles as you'd prefer to stick to your own viewpoint.

This is off topic but do you not think it odd that owner of forum rarely posts?

Do you not think it odd that so many have left?

You enjoy going off topic on many threads so I'm interested to hear what you think as opposed to calling those who have a different view to be 'victims'.

 

What evidence did you give apart from saying...'read the article'...NO evidence from you Jay. I know what democracy is hence no need to read up on it.

 

That depends on whether it will be worth my while.

 

Not particularly...why should I. People will only post in a thread if they have an interest. I have an interest in this thread so I post.

 

No.....

 

Hope this answered your questions. You also have gone off topic so don't try to slip away from that. Because you have differing views doesn't make you a victim....absolutely not. But........walking away because YOU disagree with my points of view.....makes you play the victim card.


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#39 jaybee

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 08:24 AM

What evidence did you give apart from saying...'read the article'...NO evidence from you Jay. I know what democracy is hence no need to read up on it.

That depends on whether it will be worth my while.

Not particularly...why should I. People will only post in a thread if they have an interest. I have an interest in this thread so I post.

No.....

Hope this answered your questions. You also have gone off topic so don't try to slip away from that. Because you have differing views doesn't make you a victim....absolutely not. But........walking away because YOU disagree with my points of view.....makes you play the victim card.

I've said to Craig I want my account suspended. Once that happens I doubt I'll be back.

It can then turn in to a clique.

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#40 Hairy Scot

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 08:46 AM

I've said to Craig I want my account suspended. Once that happens I doubt I'll be back.
It can then turn in to a clique.

Jay, I have always found that in a debate more impact is gained by stating your case and by backing it up with reasons and facts, and also by quoting from recognised sources.
If you were in a debating chamber you'd get nowhere by suggesting that the audience and the other participants in the debate go off and read some articles.

I don't think anyone wants to see you leave, so why not take some time and think things over.

Edited by Hairy Scot, 18 July 2016 - 08:47 AM.

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