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Which is the bigger threat climate change v terrorism?


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Poll: Climate change v Terrorism? (5 member(s) have cast votes)

Which is the bigger threat climate change v terrorism?

  1. Climate Change (4 votes [80.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.00%

  2. Terrorism (1 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

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#21 cmon norn iron

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:32 PM

The funny thing is they use fuel guzzling jets to go to these climate meetingsscratch_one-s_head.gif


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#22 Elchappy

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 08:35 PM

climate change is no more than part of the earth's natural cycle - I'm with Trump on this one. Leftie agenda



#23 Donald

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 03:43 AM

Don't give a monkey's chuff what anybody says...it's a con, a huge financial con. We the public are being targeted with numerous, constant 'green' initiatives which always but always cost a fortune and who pays ? Us the public. I certainly don't believe in a flat earth, Santa, a Loch Ness monster (but it may still appear) and to suggest that I, and others who hold the same opinion must is an insulting statement to make. I am not stupid because I hold such an opinion which no amount of 'pro climate change data' shoved in my face will make me alter it. Donald Trump stupid ? Oh aye....just became President of the USA and rich beyond your wildest dreams.....some kinda stupidity that eh?.......Those that believe it to be true....your prerogative & fair enough but keep your insults to within your own kind....thank you very much!

I'm not saying your stupid but your beliefs on climate change are and the statement highlighted above sure is. Your basically saying no matter what proof is put in front of you you'll still believe what you want to believe. Despite all the facts you'll not change your mind.

 

Who is it you think is making money out of climate change. Why would more than 90% of scientists continue to believe that our planet is under threat like never before due to our behaviour if it wasn't the case. The whole point of science is to put forward theories which can be tested again and again to see if they are correct. This has and is still happening with climate change and over and over again the results back the theory. As I said the scientist that can disprove the theory will become very rich and very famous so the motivation to prove the theory wrong is huge and many are trying. When they succeed I will reconsider my beliefs but to date they have failed badly. 

 

Do you believe in the theory of gravity? Do you accept Einstein's theory of relativity? Why would you believe science on these theories but distrust them on climate change. And according to science climate change is as real as gravity, that's how certain they are.

 

I know your an intelligent person. I believe you are a compassionate man. I know you've got children and maybe even grandchildren and that you would do everything in your power to make their lives better and safer. If climate change is real, and science says it is, you could do something now that will protect their futures. If climate change is a hoax we still leave them with a cleaner, safer planet. A win win situation. 

 

And Trump is stupid. Very stupid. 
 



#24 noidea

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:24 AM

I always believed my dad when he told me politicians would tax fresh air if they could find a way of justifying it. Well now they have.

I look at it through the incestuous lens. The Labour Party support Public Services because that is where their supports work. The Tory Party will do the same with the Private Sector although both will argue it is for altruistic or economic reasons. Just as the vast majority Public Sector voters, at a subconscious level, will vote Labour as it is the Labour Party that will keep them in employment. Vis a vie the Tories.The same is true in the Global Cooling; then Global Warming, and now Climate Change. Yes believe it or not these clever scientist could not get their conclusions to add up, so they had to change tact three times to get the politicians on side. The politicians knew they could not sell this to voters until they got all their ducks lined up in a row. Now politicians and scientists will work hand in glove with each other to scratch each others backs. Think of these things at an individual human level and don't be swayed by muddying the waters arguments by desperate and disparate parties as that is their only reason for advancing these arguments. Divide and rule has always been the politicians bewildering rallying cry.


Edited by noidea, 08 June 2017 - 08:29 AM.


#25 black dog

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 10:48 AM

I'm not saying your stupid but your beliefs on climate change are and the statement highlighted above sure is. Your basically saying no matter what proof is put in front of you you'll still believe what you want to believe. Despite all the facts you'll not change your mind.

 

Who is it you think is making money out of climate change. Why would more than 90% of scientists continue to believe that our planet is under threat like never before due to our behaviour if it wasn't the case. The whole point of science is to put forward theories which can be tested again and again to see if they are correct. This has and is still happening with climate change and over and over again the results back the theory. As I said the scientist that can disprove the theory will become very rich and very famous so the motivation to prove the theory wrong is huge and many are trying. When they succeed I will reconsider my beliefs but to date they have failed badly. 

 

Do you believe in the theory of gravity? Do you accept Einstein's theory of relativity? Why would you believe science on these theories but distrust them on climate change. And according to science climate change is as real as gravity, that's how certain they are.

 

I know your an intelligent person. I believe you are a compassionate man. I know you've got children and maybe even grandchildren and that you would do everything in your power to make their lives better and safer. If climate change is real, and science says it is, you could do something now that will protect their futures. If climate change is a hoax we still leave them with a cleaner, safer planet. A win win situation. 

 

And Trump is stupid. Very stupid. 
 

 

No, my opinions on this subject are not stupid. You believe the 'data' forwarded to you by whichever source claiming that it is a true happening....I prefer to believe the reports which denounce it as a con. You have your opinion, I have mine. Who gains financially from accepting the 'pros' assertion that it is real ? Politicians, rulers of countries, large corporations....it is in all their interests to ensure that the gullible fall in to step with their claims in order that various 'green' initiatives are seriously promoted. And who pays for all this.....the public of course.

 

It matter not a jot to me whether you or anyone else shakes their head at my stance, I'm very happy and comfortable with how I feel about the subject and to reiterate a previous statement...no amount of attempts to convince me otherwise will change my outlook. You keep believing all you want.....I'm fine with that.

 

As for Trump being stupid.....again, your opinion.....mine's is.....how does a very stupid man become President of the United States of America.....and a very, very rich man at that!


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#26 Donald

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 12:38 PM

No, my opinions on this subject are not stupid. You believe the 'data' forwarded to you by whichever source claiming that it is a true happening....I prefer to believe the reports which denounce it as a con. You have your opinion, I have mine. Who gains financially from accepting the 'pros' assertion that it is real ? Politicians, rulers of countries, large corporations....it is in all their interests to ensure that the gullible fall in to step with their claims in order that various 'green' initiatives are seriously promoted. And who pays for all this.....the public of course.

 

It matter not a jot to me whether you or anyone else shakes their head at my stance, I'm very happy and comfortable with how I feel about the subject and to reiterate a previous statement...no amount of attempts to convince me otherwise will change my outlook. You keep believing all you want.....I'm fine with that.

 

As for Trump being stupid.....again, your opinion.....mine's is.....how does a very stupid man become President of the United States of America.....and a very, very rich man at that!

 

I don't believe "data", I believe the scientific evidence. I believe that if more than 90% of experts in the field and just about every reputable scientific body state that climate change is real and caused by us then I have to take it seriously. I base my beliefs on facts that have been tested and tested again and repeatedly come up with the same results. My opinion is based on the conclusions of the greatest minds on the planet today. Please tell me what your opinion is based on? What facts that contradict the 90% of scientists and experts that have studied this existential question leads you to believe what you believe? 

 

This is not a question that we can just ignore facts and hope that things will work out. The existence of my children and grandchildren, the entire future of the planet and every living organism on it is at stake. You don't have to accept my word. Listen to Royal Society, The Geological Society, the Academy of Medical Sciences and the Institution of Civil Engineers, American Meteorological Society, NASA and if you need more go to here, (and please excuse my stupidity when it comes to computers) http://scienceblogs....nts-578x700.jpg . None of these bodies benefits from climate change and every one of them has risked their reputation to say it's real.

 

And the only people who can gain financially from false information about CC are the big oil, gas and coal industries and the politicians who are too spineless or stupid (i.e. Mr Trump) to stand up to them. The list of companies that strongly opposed Trumps stupid withdrawal from the Paris agreement includes Google, Apple, Facebook and Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, Mars Incorporated and even Exxon Mobil. Not one (except Exxon)that will benefit financially if the US stays in or leaves the agreement but they all understand the importance of staying with it.

 

As I said I know that you are an intelligent man. All I would ask is for you to spend a bit of time to research this carefully. Don't rely on right wing, conspiracy theory sights that use propaganda to counter fact. Look at scientifically reputable organisations who interpret the information we have and present the facts. Please.    



#27 noidea

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:18 PM

I don't believe "data", I believe the scientific evidence. I believe that if more than 90% of experts in the field and just about every reputable scientific body state that climate change is real and caused by us then I have to take it seriously. I base my beliefs on facts that have been tested and tested again and repeatedly come up with the same results. My opinion is based on the conclusions of the greatest minds on the planet today. Please tell me what your opinion is based on? What facts that contradict the 90% of scientists and experts that have studied this existential question leads you to believe what you believe? 

 

This is not a question that we can just ignore facts and hope that things will work out. The existence of my children and grandchildren, the entire future of the planet and every living organism on it is at stake. You don't have to accept my word. Listen to Royal Society, The Geological Society, the Academy of Medical Sciences and the Institution of Civil Engineers, American Meteorological Society, NASA and if you need more go to here, (and please excuse my stupidity when it comes to computers) http://scienceblogs....nts-578x700.jpg . None of these bodies benefits from climate change and every one of them has risked their reputation to say it's real.

 

And the only people who can gain financially from false information about CC are the big oil, gas and coal industries and the politicians who are too spineless or stupid (i.e. Mr Trump) to stand up to them. The list of companies that strongly opposed Trumps stupid withdrawal from the Paris agreement includes Google, Apple, Facebook and Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, Mars Incorporated and even Exxon Mobil. Not one (except Exxon)that will benefit financially if the US stays in or leaves the agreement but they all understand the importance of staying with it.

 

As I said I know that you are an intelligent man. All I would ask is for you to spend a bit of time to research this carefully. Don't rely on right wing, conspiracy theory sights that use propaganda to counter fact. Look at scientifically reputable organisations who interpret the information we have and present the facts. Please.    

 

Has Dr Karl Kruszelnicki responded to Dr John J Bates allegations that he and his team did not follow the strict procedures required by the NOAA's - America's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration -   and so broke their own rules on gathering operational data. Just so the unverified data could be used to influence the Paris agreement on climate change. Just because he has retired from the NOAA should not prevent him from doing so. However, retirement is a convenient excuse, but what about his team could none of them respond?



#28 Donald

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:32 PM

I always believed my dad when he told me politicians would tax fresh air if they could find a way of justifying it. Well now they have.

I look at it through the incestuous lens. The Labour Party support Public Services because that is where their supports work. The Tory Party will do the same with the Private Sector although both will argue it is for altruistic or economic reasons. Just as the vast majority Public Sector voters, at a subconscious level, will vote Labour as it is the Labour Party that will keep them in employment. Vis a vie the Tories.The same is true in the Global Cooling; then Global Warming, and now Climate Change. Yes believe it or not these clever scientist could not get their conclusions to add up, so they had to change tact three times to get the politicians on side. The politicians knew they could not sell this to voters until they got all their ducks lined up in a row. Now politicians and scientists will work hand in glove with each other to scratch each others backs. Think of these things at an individual human level and don't be swayed by muddying the waters arguments by desperate and disparate parties as that is their only reason for advancing these arguments. Divide and rule has always been the politicians bewildering rallying cry.

 

But science isn't divided, politicians aren't even seriously divided. Labour, Conservative and everything in between accept CC as a man made threat to the planet. To make political decisions that will cause a whole shift in peoples behaviour is not something that politicians would chose to do but the reality is no one can put up a scientific argument against CC despite many trying. Serious politicians make themselves look stupid if they deny overwhelming scientific evidence and Trump is the perfect example of that.

 

The only people muddying waters are those with a huge financial interest in the continued use of fossil fuels. These corporations have made countless amounts of money and are desperate to continue no matter what the consequences. Much like the tobacco companies did for decades. 

 

And scientific conclusions are tested and refined all the time, that's the nature of science. But the changing of the name to describe what scientific experts have for a long time concluded as being a man made environmental disaster takes nothing away from it's credibility. 



#29 Donald

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:37 PM

Has Dr Karl Kruszelnicki responded to Dr John J Bates allegations that he and his team did not follow the strict procedures required by the NOAA's - America's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration -   and so broke their own rules on gathering operational data. Just so the unverified data could be used to influence the Paris agreement on climate change. Just because he has retired from the NOAA should not prevent him from doing so. However, retirement is a convenient excuse, but what about his team could none of them respond?

 

Ok so what point are you making and what question are you asking?



#30 black dog

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:41 PM

I don't believe "data", I believe the scientific evidence. I believe that if more than 90% of experts in the field and just about every reputable scientific body state that climate change is real and caused by us then I have to take it seriously. I base my beliefs on facts that have been tested and tested again and repeatedly come up with the same results. My opinion is based on the conclusions of the greatest minds on the planet today. Please tell me what your opinion is based on? What facts that contradict the 90% of scientists and experts that have studied this existential question leads you to believe what you believe? 

 

This is not a question that we can just ignore facts and hope that things will work out. The existence of my children and grandchildren, the entire future of the planet and every living organism on it is at stake. You don't have to accept my word. Listen to Royal Society, The Geological Society, the Academy of Medical Sciences and the Institution of Civil Engineers, American Meteorological Society, NASA and if you need more go to here, (and please excuse my stupidity when it comes to computers) http://scienceblogs....nts-578x700.jpg . None of these bodies benefits from climate change and every one of them has risked their reputation to say it's real.

 

And the only people who can gain financially from false information about CC are the big oil, gas and coal industries and the politicians who are too spineless or stupid (i.e. Mr Trump) to stand up to them. The list of companies that strongly opposed Trumps stupid withdrawal from the Paris agreement includes Google, Apple, Facebook and Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, Mars Incorporated and even Exxon Mobil. Not one (except Exxon)that will benefit financially if the US stays in or leaves the agreement but they all understand the importance of staying with it.

 

As I said I know that you are an intelligent man. All I would ask is for you to spend a bit of time to research this carefully. Don't rely on right wing, conspiracy theory sights that use propaganda to counter fact. Look at scientifically reputable organisations who interpret the information we have and present the facts. Please.    

 

Here's an interesting article if you want to have a read....seems that not every country is willing to 'change' their outlook on emissions without, ahem...some kind of inducement. Surely not with something so serious at stake...

 

http://www.washingto...nations-wealth/

 

Here's an article with the thoughts of a former NOAA employee who spearheaded the climate data records programme & who had a 40 year career in meteorology & climate science.....

 

http://www.washingto...nations-wealth/

 

I've no doubt I could put up others but I don't see the point.


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#31 black dog

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:43 PM

Ok so what point are you making and what question are you asking?

 

the point I believe is in my 2nd link.


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#32 noidea

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:56 PM

But science isn't divided, politicians aren't even seriously divided. Labour, Conservative and everything in between accept CC as a man made threat to the planet. To make political decisions that will cause a whole shift in peoples behaviour is not something that politicians would chose to do but the reality is no one can put up a scientific argument against CC despite many trying. Serious politicians make themselves look stupid if they deny overwhelming scientific evidence and Trump is the perfect example of that.

 

The only people muddying waters are those with a huge financial interest in the continued use of fossil fuels. These corporations have made countless amounts of money and are desperate to continue no matter what the consequences. Much like the tobacco companies did for decades. 

 

And scientific conclusions are tested and refined all the time, that's the nature of science. But the changing of the name to describe what scientific experts have for a long time concluded as being a man made environmental disaster takes nothing away from it's credibility. 

Science is divided. Politicians and scientist are working hand in glove as I said. Their political allegiances are not relevant. Politicians make huge decisions without the electorates permission. Can you remember being consulted on multiculturalism or mass immigration? If scientist are now experts then why were they so ignorant of the fact circa 1970.



#33 noidea

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:58 PM

Ok so what point are you making and what question are you asking?

eh



#34 Donald

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 02:11 PM

Has Dr Karl Kruszelnicki responded to Dr John J Bates allegations that he and his team did not follow the strict procedures required by the NOAA's - America's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration -   and so broke their own rules on gathering operational data. Just so the unverified data could be used to influence the Paris agreement on climate change. Just because he has retired from the NOAA should not prevent him from doing so. However, retirement is a convenient excuse, but what about his team could none of them respond?

 

I'm asking what point you are making and what question you are asking. It doesn't make sense.

 

Have to go to bed now. Look forward to continue the debate with you and bd tomorrow.



#35 black dog

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 02:18 PM

I'm asking what point you are making and what question you are asking. It doesn't make sense.

 

Have to go to bed now. Look forward to continue the debate with you and bd tomorrow.

 

you have a good sleep Donald. I envy your climate in Perth mate....(not a dig btw).....pishing down here.


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#36 black dog

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 03:26 PM

Interesting...

 

http://www.dailymail...ases-wrong.html


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#37 noidea

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 04:35 PM

I'm asking what point you are making and what question you are asking. It doesn't make sense.

 

Have to go to bed now. Look forward to continue the debate with you and bd tomorrow.

 

I'm asking what point you are making and what question you are asking. It doesn't make sense.

 

Have to go to bed now. Look forward to continue the debate with you and bd tomorrow.

Sorry I thought you were up to speed with the climate debate. The point is the science is not settled. The question is in the post. Dr Bates is questioning how the data was treated, and why it was treated in an unscientific manner. 

Sorry but I am going on holiday tomorrow so will be occupied by other matters.



#38 Camshy

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 06:24 PM

Sorry I thought you were up to speed with the climate debate. The point is the science is not settled. The question is in the post. Dr Bates is questioning how the data was treated, and why it was treated in an unscientific manner. 
Sorry but I am going on holiday tomorrow so will be occupied by other matters.


Enjoy the holiday

#39 black dog

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 06:28 PM

Sorry I thought you were up to speed with the climate debate. The point is the science is not settled. The question is in the post. Dr Bates is questioning how the data was treated, and why it was treated in an unscientific manner. 

Sorry but I am going on holiday tomorrow so will be occupied by other matters.

 

you're leaving me to take on Donald & possibly Cam on my own simply for you to go on holiday ?...Pffft...some excuse...... ;) ....enjoy!


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#40 Donald

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 06:03 AM

you have a good sleep Donald. I envy your climate in Perth mate....(not a dig btw).....pishing down here.

 

24 degrees, beautiful blue skies and lovely warm sunshine. Perfect winters day. 8-) 






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